Jade or Jasper - A Translation Error
June 27th 2007 04:13
OOOH the modem is working properly sooo ...
Recently I've been translating a poem by LI HO which has previously been trnalsated by Wai Lim YIP and J. D. Frodsham. I have reviewed Frodsham's book on LI HO in a prior post and there are undoubtedly many other translations of this poem which I have not read. In the next post I will give you the chinese text in pin yin and my english prarphrase with notes.
In this first post I want to discuss a possible translation error that occurs in both Frodsham and YIP. Neither of these scholars have acessible web sites or email links online that I could find and for all I now they may both be retired or ... well if either of you do have web access my apologies for not contacting you.
Readers who do have knowledge of Classical Chinese are invited to comment.
(You know who if you're lurking please dont start one of your waffly whiffy "parodies" about academics and pedantry - just read the post or ignore it)
In the second line of this poem the character pi/bi is translated as jasper.
The whole poem in Frodsham is translated plus:
p. 55 poem 47 Ballad: Time Goes on Forever 5character 1 rhyme
The white light returns to the western hills
the jasper flower soars into the sky
when will past and present ever end?
thousands of years have whirled away on the wind
snads of the sea have turned into stone
fish blow bubbles at the brdige of qin
the lights in the void drift far far off
pillars of bronze melt away with the years
YIP calls it ON and On An Ancient Song in yueh fu style and its on p. 303 of his book Chinese Poetry
He translates the second line as
A jasper corona goes up into the distance
And grrr he does include the chinese text and paraphrase but he had the chinese characters printed in a semi regular style very difficult for readers not familiar with cursive chinese character forms!!!
Lets look at these two lines again
Frodsham
The Jasper Flower soars into the sky
YIP
A Jasper Corona goes up into the distance.
Jasper isnt the only problem in this line but its the most obvious!
Jasper in modern chinese is bi yu. Two words.
However this poem was written in the TANG dynasty period and the word pi / bi can mean :
Green jade, jade thats not white, something thats blue green colored, emerald.
Jade isnt always jadeitie or nephrite the word is used to describe other semi precious stones including jasper. So why is Jasper questionable?
Jasper is usually a REDDISH color! RED Brown not the crimson of sunset!
Before anyone asks yes I do know Jasper comes in several colors including purple!
The character is a compound of the signs for jade bai and stone and in the Tang period may have been pronounced BI(e)K. Cantonese has bik and Vietnamese has two words bich and biec whose meanings and spellings suggest they derive from this word?
And just to complicate things I do wonder if some early scribe didnt write the WRONG bi character?
There's a word bi / pi which means sun disk - a round piece of jade that symbolized the heavens used an an ornament.
So just what was Li HO writing about ?
Sunset? A reddish glow? Red hills? Purple? A white green afterglow?
If anyone reading knows Classical Chinese or just wants to make an inspired guess how would you translate that word?
BI / PI Unihan code 78A7
Ideas anyone?
JADE OR JASPER
A translation Error in a Poem by LI HO
Recently I've been translating a poem by LI HO which has previously been trnalsated by Wai Lim YIP and J. D. Frodsham. I have reviewed Frodsham's book on LI HO in a prior post and there are undoubtedly many other translations of this poem which I have not read. In the next post I will give you the chinese text in pin yin and my english prarphrase with notes.
In this first post I want to discuss a possible translation error that occurs in both Frodsham and YIP. Neither of these scholars have acessible web sites or email links online that I could find and for all I now they may both be retired or ... well if either of you do have web access my apologies for not contacting you.
Readers who do have knowledge of Classical Chinese are invited to comment.
(You know who if you're lurking please dont start one of your waffly whiffy "parodies" about academics and pedantry - just read the post or ignore it)
In the second line of this poem the character pi/bi is translated as jasper.
The whole poem in Frodsham is translated plus:
p. 55 poem 47 Ballad: Time Goes on Forever 5character 1 rhyme
The white light returns to the western hills
the jasper flower soars into the sky
when will past and present ever end?
thousands of years have whirled away on the wind
snads of the sea have turned into stone
fish blow bubbles at the brdige of qin
pillars of bronze melt away with the years
YIP calls it ON and On An Ancient Song in yueh fu style and its on p. 303 of his book Chinese Poetry
He translates the second line as
A jasper corona goes up into the distance
And grrr he does include the chinese text and paraphrase but he had the chinese characters printed in a semi regular style very difficult for readers not familiar with cursive chinese character forms!!!
Lets look at these two lines again
Frodsham
The Jasper Flower soars into the sky
YIP
A Jasper Corona goes up into the distance.
Jasper isnt the only problem in this line but its the most obvious!
Jasper in modern chinese is bi yu. Two words.
However this poem was written in the TANG dynasty period and the word pi / bi can mean :
Green jade, jade thats not white, something thats blue green colored, emerald.
Jade isnt always jadeitie or nephrite the word is used to describe other semi precious stones including jasper. So why is Jasper questionable?
Jasper is usually a REDDISH color! RED Brown not the crimson of sunset!
Before anyone asks yes I do know Jasper comes in several colors including purple!
The character is a compound of the signs for jade bai and stone and in the Tang period may have been pronounced BI(e)K. Cantonese has bik and Vietnamese has two words bich and biec whose meanings and spellings suggest they derive from this word?
And just to complicate things I do wonder if some early scribe didnt write the WRONG bi character?
There's a word bi / pi which means sun disk - a round piece of jade that symbolized the heavens used an an ornament.
So just what was Li HO writing about ?
Sunset? A reddish glow? Red hills? Purple? A white green afterglow?
If anyone reading knows Classical Chinese or just wants to make an inspired guess how would you translate that word?
BI / PI Unihan code 78A7
Ideas anyone?
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